Author Topic: Fixing Standing Rig  (Read 696 times)

Nereid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
    • Email
Fixing Standing Rig
« on: December 18, 2018, 11:04:13 AM »
Hey guys!! Sorry for my absence.. I forgot the password for my account and had a heck of a time remembering it.

I am trying to shorten one of my stays (main mast aft starboard backstay). The fittings are Norseman fittings, and I am looking for a Mechanical Wedge. The Norseman fittings are very similar to the Sta-Lok fittings.

Does anyone know where I can get a Wedge for the Norseman fitting (1/4")

Thanks guys!
-Nereid
S/V Nereid, Hull #193
www.instagram.com/afloataboard/

Nereid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 09:27:21 AM »
**Crickets**

Has anyone done their own rigging before?
S/V Nereid, Hull #193
www.instagram.com/afloataboard/

Jim S

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2018, 08:11:54 PM »
Yes, 316 wire and stay-lok end fittings.  Up the mast a lot but not that hard.  Go up and remove a wire, go down and make a replacement.  Go back up and install it. Repeat.
Jim S

SVJourney

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 279
    • MSN Messenger - wayne_seitz@msn.com
    • View Profile
    • Galley Wench Tales.  Our cruising blog
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2018, 07:57:55 PM »
Norseman is no longer is business I believe.
www.GalleyWenchTales.com is our cruising blog.  Stop in and see our 365 through over 17000 miles of cruising.

Jim S

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2018, 07:23:00 AM »
Norseman is  not longer made, but Sta-Lok is.  The article is 2014 and pretty much how I replaced my rigging in 2006.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/a-diy-solution-to-tired-standing-rigging
Jim S

hughfree

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2018, 11:06:22 AM »
Be sure to consider chain plates.  All my standing rigging was done 3 years ago and the old chain plates had hair line crevice corrosion.  I still have them as a reminder to replace before failure.

Nereid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2019, 01:11:15 PM »
Thanks everyone!!
.. I will take a look and see if I can replace the cone/wedge, otherwise I will just have to replace the entire fitting with a Sta-Lok.. A place I was recommended to is: www.riggingonly.com

By the way, what kind of wire do you guys have for your stays?
It seems that I have 5/16 1x19 but I am not sure.
S/V Nereid, Hull #193
www.instagram.com/afloataboard/

SVJourney

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 279
    • MSN Messenger - wayne_seitz@msn.com
    • View Profile
    • Galley Wench Tales.  Our cruising blog
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2019, 07:08:06 PM »
Its all metric now.  I'm not even sure you can find fractional rigging.  Check that carefully if you are going to be reusing your Norsemans.  You absolutely will need new collars to reuse. 
Oh and BTW, I have broken standing rigging 3 times.  Only once was it from broken wire.  The other 2 was from the fittings giving way.   I would NOT reuse the fittings whatever Stayloc or Norseman say about reuse.  I'm not a rigging expert, but I can give my 2 cents.

www.GalleyWenchTales.com is our cruising blog.  Stop in and see our 365 through over 17000 miles of cruising.

Nereid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 09:58:51 AM »
--Update--

I have purchased and received New Sta-Lok fittings (5/16" Sta-Lok for 1x19 5/16" wire), and I will attach them this weekend (hopefully).

Also, I will be using Blue Loctite for the threads and filling the fitting with 3M 4000 (as apposed to 4200 or even 5200)
S/V Nereid, Hull #193
www.instagram.com/afloataboard/

Nereid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2019, 03:08:26 PM »
Does anyone know the proper tension for the standing rig? I have 5/16 1x19
About to tune it all up! I think it is roughly 30% of breaking or working? does that sound about right?
S/V Nereid, Hull #193
www.instagram.com/afloataboard/

S/V AMITY

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2019, 03:20:02 PM »
Dale on Maruska will know.


Nereid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 04:05:34 PM »
Dale, All,

Any one know the tension the rig should be? I have a Loose Gauge that fits the 5/16 rig..

Thanks all!
S/V Nereid, Hull #193
www.instagram.com/afloataboard/

S/V AMITY

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 08:23:43 AM »
  The Pearson owners manual, section VI, is vague regarding setting up the stays.  Basically it says that the forestay, backstay & uppers should be "taught".  Lowers to be set up enough to eliminate mid-mast deflection under sail.  If you are looking for specific tension numbers for the stays a good rigger can give you that.  He'll have a gauge to do the setting up.  Cheers!

Nereid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2019, 10:17:14 PM »
Thanks mate!
But I already have a loose gauge and the more I get to put my hands on the better my knowledge will be about the boat workings.. And hopefully a piece of mind.. But I have yet to find that one ha!
S/V Nereid, Hull #193
www.instagram.com/afloataboard/

Maruska

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 803
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fixing Standing Rig
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2019, 06:53:06 PM »
Sorry for the slow reply...

The short simple answer is: 10% of the wires breaking strength. So... the industry standard strength for 316 SS, 5/16" diameter, 1x19 wire is around 10,600 pounds.  This would mean you would tension it at 1,060 pounds. 

The real answer of course is... it depends on the condition of the rig, the boat, the conditions you are sailing in, how much power you want to harness, the mast bend under load and the sail shape you want to achieve.  And where you start is the head stay.  Does the boat have a furler?  How much sag you have in the head stay if the boat is equipped with a furler will determine the ease or effort it takes to furl that head sail. Too much sag and it won't want to roll.  Too tight of head stay and it will roll Ok but the boat may not want to point to weather to save its transom in many conditions.

How do we measure head stay sag?  The best way is to sight up the forestay while loaded and estimate how much the forestay is away from perfectly straight.  This takes some experience to estimate properly but generally for a 365 it should be around 6" off of center in around 10 kts of air. When it is critical a line (spare halyard) can be stretched between the top of the mast to the stemhead fitting and a graduated ribbon flying in the middle can be used as a reference.  Adjusting the headstay, for the most part, is a function of tightening or easing the backstay. Remember as you adjust the backstay the main mast will change rake (fore and aft angle) and that will affect how much weather helm you feel in the rudder.  You may have to also adjust the headstay at the furler to maintain the proper balance of headstay/backstay and mast rake.

If this all sounds complicated is sort of is because the next thing you have to do is sight the mast while loaded and adjust the uppers and lowers to obtain the desired mast bend side to side and for mid mast sag for your mainsail shape.   All of this fine tuning typically creeps away from the 10% number, some lower and some higher.  As a rule we will not exceed 12 to 15% breaking strength.

We tune rigs for those that recognize the importance here in Buffalo for $125 for a single mast and a single set of spreaders.  It takes a significant amount of time to do it right and much of it is while underway.  Most owners are amazed the difference a few turns here and there can make to the balance and sailing ability of their boat.

Hope that helps...

Good Sailing

Dale Tanski

"Maruska"
Pearson 365 Cutter Ketch
1976 Hull #40
Buffalo, N.Y.