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Zulu,


You might want to consider moving the engine forward onto the cabin sole, then you can get the fuel tank out, rebuild the fuel tank bunks and replace the tank. Once you get it out onto the sole, you can give it a good look and see if anything needs work.


thanks for this detailed answer
I think now I have to pull the engine...

There are parts of that engine which has some 4000 hrs on it that I just cant seem to get a good enough look at, but in replacing the bilge pump hose I became aware that there are some hoses that are on the critical list, and that whole bilge area is a mess. Even without major engine work I can remove the old fuel tank, put in place the new one. Service the engine and mounts, clean out the bilge entire, repaint the bilge, the donk and secure. So the motor might not leave the cabin.

This would also trigger some other work I have in my mind
I want to better seal off the sail lockers from the sea, and in doing so make them more useful for stowage. Its too open back there for my liking and the tabbing that exists back there under the batteries etc. is beginning to fail..
Im getting berth envy from anyone who has a quarter berth. And that will both value add to the boat, and make a practical sea berth.
Im feeling the need to make better engine access, especially from the port side.
Properly service the rudder which seems stiff to operate from the helm. Not sue what to expect there.

Outside of all this, the most complete mess imaginable is the wiring. Almost anything that has been added in this boats life needs revising, rewiring and securing. Ive found shore power 240 volt in open miscellaneous junction boxes with bare wire ends. Wires that have been clipped with what look like live ends with no protection. Wiring loomed and harnessed to the exhaust. Im thinking I will keep the engine start battery on the starboard side but move it aft out of the way of the quarter berth space. Greatly limit the high voltage shore power in protected areas near by. Return the boat to more 12 volt use where previously it has had fitted may 240 volt appliances and outlets. All that without even thinking about what sort of shape the 40 year old Pearson wiring is like.

But first, I just got to get her off hard standing because Im burning money up here, and start building a new fuel tank.
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See also:  http://atlinc.com/atl-marine-fuel-bladder-tank-installation.html

Thanks for that, that would absolutely work
The only downside is it costs money vs a tank I can make myself and build in a few features, even if Im not sure how.
Im looking at installing a tank drain to be able to sump off water, and a fuel level gauge even if its a tad inconvenient to use.
For those reasons the bladder is out, but mostly its about money. Its not that I dont have any its that I seem to have a growing list of jobs and things to fix.

cheers
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Zulu,


You might want to consider moving the engine forward onto the cabin sole, then you can get the fuel tank out, rebuild the fuel tank bunks and replace the tank. Once you get it out onto the sole, you can give it a good look and see if anything needs work.

New tank:  http://bodylens.com/Gallery/thumbnails.php?album=16

These are pictures and a diagram of the fuel tank I designed. The dimensions of the new tank are 29" wide, x 25" fore/aft.  This gives me more room between the engine and the fwd face of the tank, but still maintain the 50 gallons.  Now I can stick my whole head in that gap and see what is going on with the water pump and everything else back there.  It does not sit on wood. There is aluminum angle welded to the fwd and  aft faces of the tank. These rest on aluminum angle bolted to wood that I glassed to the hull. All bolts that hold tank to boat are 3/8" SS bolts and washers, isolated from aluminum with .031 teflon washers. My old tank was pitted and leaking because it sat on wet wood with poorly fitted rubbery material. It was held down with galvanized plumbers tape.  No, there is no dissimilar metal contact and not metal to wood contact.

Because of poor planning, I replaced the tank before I even thought of removing the engine. I do a lot of things out of sequence. I was able to remove that tank by cutting (then later replacing) the vertical glassed-in plywood that runs the length of the engine/tank area I also already had the starboard bulk that separated the cabin from cockpit lockers removed because I'm building  quarter berth.

It's really not that hard moving the engine, with the right tools.

You only have to disconnect a few hoses and wires, then unbolt the engine from its bed.

I have some pictures on http://bodylens.com/gallery (look for Engine Install and Engine Removal

I also uploaded some high res. pictures to http://bodylens.com/367/EngineRemoval.zip

THis is a zip archive that includes the two pictures referenced bwlow (P365A-1 and P365A-2)

First, you need measure the engine length and width to make sure it will can be moved forward far enough to give enough room to slide the tank forward.

It should be able to slide forward between the galley cabinet and stbd settee/nav cabinet.  Once you conclude that you have the room, you'll probably have to remove some of the galley cabinetry  to give you easier access. Just a bunch of screws and 1"x 1" cleats. Beware, the screws are brass and several will likely have their heads snapped off because of corrosion.

What you'll need to move the engine is a "C" shaped beam. Dale made one and I welded up a copy of his. Pictures and dimensions are in the zip file hyperlinked above.

It's basically a square made of 1.5" x 3" rectangular tubing (plain steel) with one side missing, like a squared "C". I called this the "forklift".

At the top of the forklift near the end is an attachment point for the chain hoist.
At the bottom of the forklift (underside) is an attachment point for the engine. Make sure they are directly in line so the forklift does not get off balance. This is what is going to reach aft, under the bridge deck to the center point of the engine.

Run the main halyard down to the boom and attach it to the body of the chain hoist.
Bring the spinnaker halyard aft and attach it to the chain hoist as a backup. Both halyards run through their own snatch block (or whatever block) and are connected to the chain hoist with their own anchor shackle. The shackles of the snatch or whatever blocks are fastened to the "engine outhaul" line, see below. Also see the Engine Install pictures on http://bodylens.com/gallery. The Engine Removal pictures don't adequate pictures of the halyard arrangement

The boom is only a fairled, you are not using the boom as a lifting point. All the weight of the engine goes up the chain lift to the halyards. YOu use the main for lift and the spinnaker as a backup in case the main breaks, so make sure you keep up with the slack of the spinnaker halyard.

The next line you set up is the "engine outhaul". This line is tied to the shackles of the two blocks are fairleads for the halyards. It runs aft to a block on the end of the boom, then forward to the mast on the block, then along the cabin to the mainsheet winch. You will need a winch for this line.

Down below, you need some 6" x 6" (or some dimension) blocks onto which you will place the engine so the oil pan does not take the weight of the engine. Ideally, have a set of cheap engine mounts to put on the engine, then you can set the engine on its mounts on the  6 x 6 blocks. 

To move the engine, haul on the engine outhaul (remember, this is pulling the chain hoist aft) so there is a slight aftward angle. This is important because when you haul up on the halyard and lift the engine, it will slide forward and go crashing into you or anyone who is down below. With the engine outhaul, you have full control of the engine's fore/aft movement. 

A problem you will have is the balance of the engine under the forklift, depending on where your lifting points are. I have two lifting points and connected the two with a piece of 5/16" chain with just enough slack to slip a chain hook on. If you have too much slack, you might run out of vertical distance when hoisting. First try was imbalanced, so I moved the chain hook to another link on the short chain until I got it close to balanced. For the install, I welded up a bracket that connects the two lifting points and got near perfect balance. You'll see that in the Engine Install pictures as a gray angle iron spanning the top of the engine, diagonally.


At first, you will only be able to lift the engine a little way because the forklift or the engine parts will hit the underside of the bridge deck. This is where you carefully ease of on the engine outhaul so the engine moves forward. As it moves forward, it will descend because the halyard will get longer. That's just the geometry of the halyard's angle, when it moves forward, it lengthens.

Ideally, you need one person on the engine outhaul and one person on the halyard, and one person below ensuring the engine clears and issuing commands to the folks up on deck. I was able to get by with two, one above on the lines and one below hollering up directions.

Now, it's just a matter of easing the engine forward and adjusting the height so the engine clears everything and comes to rest on the  6x6" blocks.


I just realized that you have a ketch; therefore, the main boom might not reach far enough aft for this setup. If that is the case, you will have to use a block and tackle connecting the bottom/fwd corner of the forklift to your main mast (see picture 365A-1.jpg). You'll use this to move the engine forward and a chain hoist on your main halyard, as described above. You'll have to work that out. You might be able to use a single lift point (see 365A-2).  Maybe Dale can add insight on that aspect, those two pictures are his. Not sure what you need to arrange to prevent engine from crashing forward if you can't haul the chain hoist aft enough. You'll have to work that out.

If you want more details, let me know and I'll answer your questions.


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Might a fuel bladder do the trick?  See:  http://atlinc.com/marine.html
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Its gonna be over a 100F here for a few days so I put a full day in on the hard stand so I can get some time out.

I cleaned up the very tea stained rigging in the morning. I tried a few products but the most convenient to use with a 3M Scotch Brite pad and water. If you are careful and go right around a wire rope you can easily clean off 6ft a minute, but you have to be more careful on flat metal parts as they scratch easily, and Im unsure if that would have some long lasting effect. Anyhow it was great to see the stays sparkle in the sun and shine, shine everywhere.

Later in the day I put some time into cleaning the pushpit because I wanted to just sit in the cockpit and watch the traffic go by in the river. The tugs seemed to be busy doing something or other probably in the outer harbour.

Having determined the fuel tank is stuffed, most likely a split seam, a mate came around to hook up a small 2 gallon tank over the stair so that when the rigs up the boat can be moved to a dock. Alan bled the system and we pondered the possibilities for a diesel new tank.

Nothing has been decided but I know that I can build a tank/s out of plywood and glass, or steel; but stainless is also an open possibility, just more difficult. Im thinking that this is all going a bit backwards as I didnt want to pull the engine yet, and the easiest way to remove the old tank and install any sizeable new one is to pull the motor. I dont have to remove the old tank to install a new one but still the only other way in is via either of the cockpit sail lockers, which kinda narrows the dimensions a lot. So maybe two tanks 15-20 imperial gallons each, more aft to improve engine access which is otherwise appalling.

What would be really nice would be a if few feet of the bulkhead each side of the engine could be removed or opened as easy as the cabinet aft of the stair, but maybe this is a discussion for another time.

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Wayne, thank you for the insight that you found to be typical use in that area.

The direction of my redesign is to provide for adequate chain and line stowage (it's an organization I have  :) ) . Chain down low, line up high, 200' chain (+/- 50'), then 100 (+/- 50') attached to the bitter end of the chain.  I'll have plenty of room in the upper areas of the original chain locker and the upper, outboard reaches of  the new anchor locker for several 50' and 100' chunks of line. Most of this planning is for storage of ground tackle needed to tying up for hurricanes, rather than for routine use.

We usually get 1 or 2 near misses every year here in the Southeast US.  Because the dock is exposed to the SW - NW (fetch varies from 4 miles to 1/2 mile in those directions), I move the boat when predicted winds exceed 45kts.  I usually set out 4 to 5 anchors ( 35 - 55 lbs, 8:1 scope) 4 to 5 shore lines up in the bend of a local bayou, which only 10' deep. Typically, I swap out the long chains for 25' and 50' lengths and add line for the rest of the scope, that way everything is nice an stretchy; bottom is mud, so no issues there.  All my cleats are on top of the toe rail,  no issue with chafe; no line touches the gunwale or chocks, which I removed when I put the 12" cleats up on the toe rail.  Chafe on the trees is eliminate by wrapping chain 2 turns around each tree, then shackling both chain ends to the 3-strand leading back to the boat.


Somewhat off-topic, but what do you tie your bitter end to in the bow locker?

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Pearson 365/367 Mechanic Shop / Re: Pearson 365 Main Mast Step
« Last post by SVJourney on Today at 05:00:40 AM »
Jeff,
In any galvanic cell there is an anode(aluminum mast), a cathode(steel mast step, or even just another piece of aluminum that has slightly differing alloys) and an electrolyte (salt water).  Remove any one of those and there can be no corrosion.  Pete's mast step is the ultimate warfare as there is no cathode AND it lifts the step out of the water. (no electrolyte)  There is an awesome drawing with dimensions on another thread here somewhere.

That said, we repaired ours in Panama.  No supplies available to make Pete's step.  LOL, it was totally third world and you'd be lucky to find cotter pins that didn't corrode to dust almost instantly.  There was a banana shipping dock next to us.  So what we did was take a scrap of 3/4 marine plywood, make 3 pieces the size of the step and epoxy (thickened)  them into place,  then glassed over it with some bi axial glass and epoxy I had on board.  Cleaned up the old steel step in a sand blaster and coated it in epoxy paint.  Cut 2 1/4 off the mast and stepped it.  Covered the whole area in LPS3 corrosion preventive.  Total cost about $60 USD  Doing so we removed the electrolyte, so corrosion not very possible.  I'm absotively positive it will last another 30 years.

THAT said, the original Pearson design (flawed as hell) lasted from 1977 to 2015 on our boat, so any thing you do should last as well if not better.   The most important thing is to get it out of the water that is inherent to the 365 in that area.
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Completely understood. 
Just for giggles (NOT an anchoring expert!) let me tell you what we did, and learned after 18k NM and crossing the Pacific. (deep anchorages and LOTS of coral bommies).

Almost nobody had more than 300' of chain.  And it worked for everyone we talked to.  Nobody found established anchorages that they needed more.  I doubt many people's windlasses would lift more if anchored that deep.
300 ft of 5/16HT is 360 lbs.  Our Pearsons were not designed for that much weight forward but removing the water tank compensates for that much chain forward.

On Journey, we had 200ft 5/16HT chain and 200 feet of 5/8 3-strand.  The 3 strand was coiled up and stowed high on the anchor locker held up by velcro.  If needed for extra scope (storm conditions) we could deploy it.  Not once in 5 years did we need to even in anchorages up to 70 feet deep. Our Rocna was fine at 3:1 scope.  One advantage is that the line did not fill the chain space.  The other advantage is that line , while still spliced to the chain, was still brand new at the end of the trip as it wasn't sitting under 200' of wet chain, moldering and weakened. 

There were times I wished for more chain (70 ft deep anchorage) so 300 ft seems okay.  Would still have 100 ft of line attached at the end for shock absorption during storm conditions though.

Just my 2 cents....

Wayne
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Thank you for the advice on estimating the volume of that compartment; it worked.

This method shows me that I have about 3.2 cuft with new partition at 18" aft.  Now I have some data to work with and can modify my spreadsheet to adjust the position of the new partition to ensure enough room for the chain.

Regarding the concern of getting the chain into that compartment, I'm still working on that. Haven't ironed that one out yet. I need to work out the issue of having enough slope in any angled parts of the chain path (if any) so the chain doesn't stop and make sure I have at least the 18" of fall form the windlass so it has no issues self-tailing (Maxwell VWC 1500). My objective is to get the chain as far aft as I can and still have it completely self-stowing. I realize that much of the space will be unusable by the chain because of the way chain self-stores and the shape of the compartment, but this gives me an idea of where to go.

I'll eventually muscle the 250' (or whatever length I decide to use) of chain to the boat and do a test, but I'm not ready to cut my 550' length from the barrel for a test because I 'm not certain  I want to use 250' (maybe 200 or maybe 300').  This gives me a starting point.

Thanks again
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