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Topics - P69

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WestMarine has lewmar winches on sale, buy one, get one free.
I compared my ebay/craigslist/local for sale purchase/Defender Demo sales, which I figured were a great deal and this deal is pretty close. ON the larger winches, I got better deal, on the smaller winches, It's close. Two winches arrived broken (rough shipping). that got resolved with no  money loss, only some time lost

Sale good through Monday, 3/11/19. 

I just did a comparison of what I paid over the last several years on winch replacement with This WM special. I paid $200 - $300 less than the special. If any needs good deal on winches and doesn't want to watch for sale ads, this might be a great time.

Attached is my spreadsheet for y'all to decide if is this is your good deal.

General Photos / Cabin Sole hatch expansion and Foredeck Hatch Dam
« on: January 06, 2019, 11:12:43 PM »
I uploaded some pictures of my last two projects.

1. Build a dam around the forward hatch to prevent sheets from snagging the hatch and prevent solid water form pushing against the underside of the hatch.

2. Expand access to the bilge. I made molds of the existing openings in the cabin sole and made additional recesses that I glued (polyester putty) into new holes I cut in the cabin sole. The double opening I cut adjacent to the mast left a weak cabin sole. I strengthened that by adding 1 1/4" x 2" poplar floor joists, encapsulated in epoxy/1708. Now the sole is solid, even with all the  holes. I added two single openings forward of the head and two doubles. One to port of the existing factory-molded double and one to port of the narrow factory-molded opening at the mast.

My gelcoat color matching is still not very good, especially with the brownish color of the non-skid. The cabin sole is made up of the upper skin (the surface you walk on) that is about 1/8" to 3/16" fiberglass. 3/4" end-grain balsa, then about a 1/16" lower skin.

I have temporary floorboards in place. The finished floor boards will be part of a new teak cabin sole overlay. That will be near the end of the projects (distant future).

Hatch dam:
Cabin sole hatches:

Forum Support / New Boards Created - Many files uploaded
« on: December 10, 2018, 10:38:51 PM »
Most of the pages from (Garner's former web site) have been turned into PDF files and uploaded to individual posts. There is a new category of boards named "Document Library - Manuals, Specifications, Service Bulletins"

This is a whole section of Boards that contain most of the files from Garner's site.  If anyone has documents or manual or completed modifications, you may post them to these new boards.

The original forum boards are for the Q & A that we've been using this forum for. I created these new Boards to help categorize and keep organized the any documents and manuals that we all deal with, like parts list, engine part lists, individual device manual (i.e. pump manuals, electronic device manuals, etc...).

When you upload, please follow the existing pattern and make the name of the post specific to what you uploaded. If you have different versions of manuals for the same part/device, you may include up to 4 attachments per post.

If I need to add a new Board (i.e. V-drive, Modifications, Pearson-specific, etc...), let me know and I'll add that Board.

I'm trying to figure out how to install additional grab bars (stainless steel grab bars) to the overhead inside the boat.  The existing grabrails are good for when I am over the settees, but I need some more along the center line. Actually about 12" or 18" away from the center line in two or three strategic places.

I figured out where I want these, but there is nothing on the outside to receive the through bolts and I don't want grab bar in those locations on the coachroof. I can just terminate with a nut and washer, but I'll stub my toes and knees on those. I can't use a cap/acorn nut because those will also hurt; they are too pointy. I need something to thread the bolt into, but is not conducive to stubbing toes or poking into buttcheeks or knees.
I also want to put a grab bar over the V berth on the forward facing, sloping end of the coach roof, but again, there is nothing on the exterior to receive the through bolt.

Does anyone have an idea how I can through bolt a grab bar to the overhead in the salon area and minimize the 'toe stub' risk on the exterior?


Pearson 365/367 Mechanic Shop / Fastening Exhaust Hose
« on: October 10, 2018, 02:50:25 PM »
What kind of "thing" should be used to secure the exhaust hose? I am reinstalling/rerouting the hose and I'm not sure what to use to secure it. More specifically, I know what to fasten into on the boat, but not what to use to wrap around the hose. The hose moves a lot when engine ins on, so chafe is an issue.  Should the fastenings allow for movement or should fasten as rigid as possible?


I made and installed two  1  1/4" SS poles (one next to Nav desk and one in the galley. Both push up against the overhead, greatly stiffening the coach roof and provide a strong point to grab  onto.  Both poles are easily removable (for attaching eyes or fittings).  Both poles are 316SS schedule 40 pipe.

Galley pole is adjustable with two 3/8" bolts (I welded the nuts to the upper part). Nav pole is adjustable with a 3/4" bolt that  unscrews /screws into a nut that is welded to the bottom end of the pole. 

Galley pole fits into a metal bracket that has a 1" schedule 40 pipe. this pipe as two tabs welded and those bolt to an epoxy block at is molded to fit the contour of the overhead in the formerly-inaccessible space in the fiberglass molded upper cabinet. The lower end is a bolted to fiberglass boards that are epoxied to the hull.

Nav pole fits into a custom molded, circular fitting that is epoxied to the overhead. The pipe fits into a recess that is divided by a 3/16" tongue of thickened epoxy molded into that fitting. The upper end of the pipe is slotted to fit this tongue. Purpose of tongue/slot is to prevent the pipe from rotating when I turn the lower bold (unscrew) to extend the length and push against the overhead.  The lower bolt threads into a nut that is welded to two 3/4" washers, which are welded to the bottom end of the pipe, all sanded to near-mirror finish.

I made a stainless steel lower bracket with a center recess, where the bolt head fits (and can rotate). This recess is a close fit to the widest diameter of the bolt head. This allows the bolt to turn during install/uninstall, but very little room for it to slide around.   

Later, I will finish the upper end with a piece of wood the I will turn on the lathe to form a cup-like medallion that will cover the  upper epoxy bracket and its collar.  All one will see if a pipe coming out of the cabin sole and entering a wood trim on the overhead.

It took months of contemplation to figure out how  to create two poles that are easily adjustable, clean looking, secure (so when I smash against them, the won't move), easy to install and remove (I know I will weld additional features to it in the future), and not astronomically priced,  The pipe was the most expensive (about $200 for the three pieces (8' for nav, 4' for galley plus a 2' piece (only used about 8") for the upper bracket of the galley pole.

This is one of the few projects that actually executed without any major mistakes or wasted attempts (wish I could say that about all of them).

More pictures:
  Galley Pole:
  Nav Pole:

Pearson 365/367 Mechanic Shop / Perkins 4108 - Long Beach CA
« on: August 31, 2018, 03:14:58 PM »

Perkins 4108 FS in Long Beach, CA

The guy also has a gearbox and v drive

When designing the 12v electrical system, is it better to have home runs to each device from the DC panel or have terminal blocks in different areas (or zones) of the boat, then devices connected to that local terminal block, which has a single home run to the main DC panel?

For example, in the V berth, stbd side, I have a fan, light, two storage compartment lights under the stbd v berth.  Should these four devices have individual home runs to the DC panel or should they have a terminal block nearby, which has a single home run to the DC panel?

Attached is an example of "zones"


Anyone have first-hand experience with Marine Beam's masthead tricolor light?

mast is down for maintenance and am thinking of adding one of these (tricolor + strobe + photocell for auto anchor light).


I'm looking for the best way to prevent corrosion between the underside of the T track when fastened to horizontal surfaces (coach roof and toe rail).

When I removed the genoa tracks, I found a lot of corrosion to the underside of the T track (not apparent when looking at the top of the track), mostly around the bolt holes. The corrosion was so deep in many parts that had to scrap those and buy two new 10' sticks. I understand the problem of SS fasteners and aluminum and that looks like most of the issue was lack of tefgel during original installation, but there were some corroded spots that were between bolt holes.

I also removed some 4' pieces of T track from the coach roof that I installed about 3 years ago and saw some, but very little corrosion (it was only 3 years ago when installed)

The coach roof tracks were through bolted (flat head machine screws) and bolt holes bedded with butyl (including butyl around threads and under bolt head) There were no leaks into the cabin through the coach roof tracks (removed the core around each bolt hole and filled with epoxy).

What I found with the coach roof tracks is that the force of tightening the 5/16 bolts (every 4") caused the edges of the track to compress the fiberglass coach roof outer layers. That is not a big deal, except it looks like in a couple of spots the compression formed a dam and prevent water from draining out, leading to the minor corrosion (T tracks are concave on underside surface). Over time, this would lead to more-than-minor corrosion. This corrosion was between bolt holes and the adjacent holes had no ss/aluminum contact (I used butyl on threads and underside of bolt heads).

I did not put any butyl between bolt holes, just donuts encircling the bolts when I installed the coach roof tracks 3 years ago.

When I rebed all the tracks, they are all going to be on fiberglass (I'm not replacing the teak caprail). What is the most effective way to prevent water from pooling underneath the T track when fastening to a horizontal surface (or promoting water drainage)?

The other question centers on the interface between the bolts and the aluminum track. When bolting with butyl, I countersunk the fiberglass holes, placed butyl donuts around the portion of bolts that extended below the track and put some butyl around the bolt head and threads that contacted the aluminum in the 4"-on-center holes.  Problem with this is that, although the buytl prevented water intrusion through the deck, the tightening of the bolts pressed all the butyl out from between the heads and the countersunk aluminum (underside of head, top of track). This lead to some SS/aluminum corrosion in a few of the holes. There were also a couple of the 4" holes in the track that had a continuous layer of aluminum oxide, were there was direct contact between AL and SS.

Has anyone used butyl between the track and the deck, but used tefgel where the SS bolt contacts the upper part of the track (underside of bolt head) and where the bolt passes through the track to prevent SS/AL corrosion?


I'm redesiging the anchor chain storage in the bow to keep it lower and a bit farther aft.

I've removed the forward water tank and will place a parition about 18" aft of the current chainlocker/vberth bulkhead.

I'm trying to calculate the volume of that triangular area to see if the 18" is too far aft or not far enough aft for the 200' of 5/16" chain and a hundred or so feet of line.

The problem I am running into is that I can't find a formula to account for the narrowing of the area towards the bow and narrowing down. I found formulae for trapezoids, spheres, triangles, cones, but none account for narrowing in x and z axes.

I don't need the exact volume of this compartment because I know the chain and line will not fill it evenly, but I'd like to get it pretty close so I don't make a huge mistake either way (too large or too small).

I found a formula to calculate the volume that a given length of chain will take, well, actually two formulae, so I know what volume I need to create

((Fathoms * D^2)/2 )*1.7 
  V = 0.85*L*D^2

  Where  D = Diameter of chain in inches (i.e. 5/16")
              L = Total length of chain in fathoms
Both give same answer

Interestingly, I have a barrel of 550' of 5/16" chain and the calculated volume of that barrel is only 4.417 cuft and it contains 550'. Formula calibrated to barrel volume:  V = 0.4935*L*D^2

The above formulae result in 7.61 cuft for same length of chain. Possible that the formula accounts for non-compact storage or uneven distribution in the locker?

Depending on the formula I use (the one with 1.7 factor or the one calibrated to the barrel of chain) I will need betwen 1.48 cuft or 2.74 cuft for 200' chain. Then I need to add some volume for 5/8" three strand at the bottom of that pile (rode will be 200' chain, then 100' 5/8" 3 strand)

Does anyone know the way to calculate or closely estimate the volume of a given triangular locker that tapers in two of the three axes?

I've attached a diagram (chainlockerdimensions.pdf, not to scale) with measurements. This pdf includes an overlay of the diagram on a photo of the locker in an effort to add clarity.

Also attached is  a broader picture of the vberth area showing the proposed location of the partition (LookingForward.jpg)

Has anyone found better hinges for the cockpit lockers? Mine have removable pins and that's a great feature because I can remove the hatches so the hatches won't fall on my head while I'm in there, but the pins vibrate out when motoring and that's kind of a pain.

I guess what I'm looking for are hinges that have removable pins or hinges that have some kind of easy-release so I can completely remove the hatches.


Pearson 365/367 Mechanic Shop / Universal 5444 SN/Block number stamp
« on: September 03, 2017, 01:04:18 PM »
For the few of us with Universal engines, here is how to find parts.

Get Kubota block number, located on block near the injector pump.

With block number, find engine model (see attached cross-reference pdf), then goto Kubota site for parts diagrams to find tractor model

Shop for parts using tractor model as the reference

If the block number is the same (i.e. v1902), the parts will bet the same between M50 and 5444
There might be a difference in the marinized parts that Universal added.

General Photos / Hanging locker - Now Dive Tank/Gear Storage
« on: July 07, 2017, 12:10:05 AM »

I Converted the hanging locker into a dive tank/gear locker. Just finished designing, fabricating, and installing the tank rack. It can hold 3 tanks. The one in the picture is a shorty that my daughter uses.

Not completely finished. Need to grind a way a few remaining sharp edges and points, drill any needed limber holes,  then build/install the shelving for the rest of the dive gear. holds the tanks very securely. You can kick the tank (not the valve) and the rack, but nothing will budge. I didn't want to store them on deck (theft/safety issues) and I wanted to make damn sure when stowed below, that they would not move when the boat heels or gets knocked down.

I made cleats/gussets out of fiberglass (polyester), scribed them to the hull, the glassed them (epoxy) to the hull.   The tank clamps are 1" x 2.5" aluminum bar that I (machine shop) cut out to match partial circumference of three tanks.  The clamp brackets that squeeze the aluminum bar together are 1/8" SS flat bar with tapped 1/4" ends for 3/8" x 18 SS bolts.  I made these so they pivot at the outboard (fixed )end to make it easier to get the 3/8" bolts threaded when I store the tanks.

The tanks sit in fiberglass bowls (polyester) that I made for molds I took off the bottoms of the tanks. The base bowls are glassed together to their own platform, which is has gussets glassed to their underside. Those gussets bolt to other gussets that are glassed to the hull with epoxy/cloth. This makes the system completely removable for cleaning/replacement/damage repair. The only parts that are permanent are three gussets near the bottom of the compartment and the two shelves (really just cleats) to which the fixed part of the aluminum clamps are bolted.

I cut the bottom of the locker and made a hatch so I can get to the previously-unavailable space below that locker and the locker just aft of it. That is what that red 'board' is that you see at the bottom of the locker in some of the pictures.

I still have to design and install shelves to hold the other dive gear, grind off remaining sharp edges and points, then give it a tinted coat of epoxy to make a easily-cleanable surface. Lastly, I will disassemble every thing, clean it all up, the reassemble with tef-gel on the dissimilar metal contacts.

Pearson 365/367 Yacht Club / CLR and CE
« on: February 03, 2017, 10:00:11 PM »
For anyone interested, I calculated the approximate locations of the CLR and Total CE for a P367. Diagram also has the Main and foretriangle Centers of Effort.  If anyone has original (or copies of) blueprints with these marked, please double-check my diagram to see how far off I am.

Lead is about 15.8%
Edit: 1/6/18: Corrected the lead and uploaded new jpg.  Previous data were calculated incorrectly.

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